Question about Veteran's Day Sunday
Actually, I have two questions.
First, how many of you had a special Veterans Day service today (Sunday)? Second, how many of you would be upset if you attended a service that didn't pay special attention to the Veterans on this day?
I didn't realize that this was Veterans' Day and therefore did not mention anything about our veterans. Afterwards, I was berated by a parishioner. I apologized, but to no avail. Actually, if I'd realized it, I would have had a special pastoral prayer or mentioned them during announcements. But I don't believe in having special holiday services (other than Christian services like Palm Sunday or Ash Wednesday, etc.). I don't want to slight our veterans. My grandfather was a veteran, and I have nothing but respect for those fighting in our military. But worship is to be about God first and foremost. Tell me...am I wrong? I don't mind discussing the issue. I just don't like someone jumping down my throat at the end of the service in front of a crowd (including visitors).
I would like to say "Thank You" to all those who might read this and are veterans. You have my respect, and so I hope I've done nothing to offend you.
In the love of Christ,
greg
posted by Greg Hazelrig @ 3:06 PM
17 comments
17 Comments:
Throughout my ministry the churches which I have pastored have routinely showed honor and respect for veterans of military service. At times this has been by way of a special segment within the larger worship experience. Such was the case today. On occasion this observance has comprised the entire worship service. Such was the case when we celebrated the 50th anniversary of D-Day.
I would find it offensive if with callous disregard a worship leader choose to give no attention at all to Veterans Day. From your post I do not gather that you acted in such a manner.
Today was for you a learning experience. Obviously Veterans Day is of significance to at least one if not more of your members. Mark your 2008 calendar accordingly, consult the many resources that are available and make plans for some sort of appropriate observance.
As regards special holiday services, some can be problematic. But many provide an opportunity to tap into a common cultural mindset that will allow you to more easily draw attention to the gospel. If Paul could reference a pagan poet to highlight the good news of Christ, perhaps a secular holiday handled tactfully and with due care might afford an opportunity share the gospel with lost people.
You don't have to like having someone chew you out in public. Personally I've never developed a taste for it myself. Such an experience will not kill you but it will mature you if you learn from it.
Hi Greg -
We didn't mention Veteran's day at all today, and I'm of your mindset when it comes to celebrating non-religious holidays in church - I'd prefer not to. If it had been mentioned, I would have included it in the pastoral prayer, but it wasn't mentioned, and I too did not think of it. I also have family and friends, past and present, that are veterans, so it isn't an issue of disrespect. It's just not necessarily the appropriate arena. In fact, if I was worshiping somewhere where the whole focus of the service was veteran's day, I think I would find that problematic myself. I still wouldn't chew out the worship leader though ;)
Perhaps I spoke to soon - after my comment, I got an email from someone who was a little upset I didn't include a time to recognize veterans in the congregation. Ah well..
Hi Greg-
So sorry about your experience today. Following the passing of the peace, I asked our veterans to stand and say what branch they served. We then joined together in the litany from the Book of Worship of United States Forces that was available on the GBOD website.
What we did was very understated and came about from discussions with the worship commitee and the council. We kept the focus where it needed to be but recognized the service of our veterans.
I don't think you're wrong. You made a mistake and you apologized. That should have been enough. The parishoner's behavior was totally uncalled for.
As to your second question, I would not be upset if veterans weren't singled out in a service. I would be more disturbed if an inordingate amount of the service, or the focus of the entire service itself, were to be on the veterans.
My thanks to you Beth and Wayne. I appreciate your responses. I also hope that your email was from an understanding person that will listen when you explain yourself.
As for anonymous, I just wish I knew who you were. I like the way you can look at things from two sides. I try to do that myself. And as you say, I will mark that on my calendar for next year. But I still believe that I will do what I would've done if it had occurred to me beforehand this year. I will mention them in my pastoral prayer.
By the way, I spoke to someone yesterday afternoon who believes that this person was probably the only one who took offense to this situation. I pray she is right. I think most of my parishioners know I love them and that I would not try to disrespect them.
Greg, in the contemporary service yesterday we had a moment of recognition of the vets. as well as a prayer for those who have served as well as those who are currently deployed. As son and brother of vets I would have been somewhat discomforted by no mention whatsoever. At the same time a full service dedicated to vets would probably not be in order either, unless you were close to a military base or large VA residential facility...then a special service would be in order. Hey, take it as a lesson learned. (And in the future, if the lectonary or whatever resource you are using brings up an appropriate passage...say "Greater Love hath no man..." etc, you could link it to an appropriate sermon illustration, such as the story of "The four chaplins")
Perhaps the church member who said this would like to be in charge of collecting items to send to soldiers and raising the awareness of our soldiers' needs. I have online acquaintances who mail packages regularly to soldiers and the simple things the soldiers request are heart-wrenching. Personally I have had good intentions about sending care packages and have never done it. There are a number of places online that list needs and specific groups to send them to.
Bro. Greg,
Sorry to hear that you were crawled under the carpet for not metioning the Veterans on Veterans Sunday.
We had a great service which started out with one of our local boys, who left today for camp before heading out to Iraq, carrying in the flag and behind him were all the men and women members of our church who were veterans.We then had the pledge to alliegence and had a roll call for each Veteran member.All our music was centered around America and the Veterans. The sermon was out of Matthew 8:5-13 about Jesus and the roman solider. Maybe this will give you some insight to do better next year.
P.S. I attend a methodist church too.
David Berryman
Clopton United Methodist Church
Brighton, Tn.
David, do we know each other?
If not, this is a freaky coincidence seeing as how Clopton UMC is the church I grew up and was baptized in. My old home is just up the road from there.
Bro. Greg,
I do not think that we know each other. I am new at the Clopton Church. I just started going there this past summer. I was a member of the Longstreet United Methodist Church in Memphis for 20+ years. When our minister retired i moved to Covington. I had a hard time finding a new church home until this summer when my former pastor came out of retirement and ended up at Clopton.He has really helped this little church grow in just a short time. It really is a small world, nice to chat with you .I enjoy your website too.
David
David,
My grandparents lived in Covington and I spent a great deal of time growing up there. My grandfather owned the city service station that I believe is abandoned now. It sits on the south side of the square down from the post office and across from the church. My sister still lives just west of there in a small community around Garland.
I was married at Clopton my first time. If you go back over the hill towards the highway, when you come down the hill we lived at the bottom of the hill on the right. At the time it was the house fartherest from the road. Do you know who lives there now by chance? I remember riding my dirt bike to church.
Please ask if anyone is still there who remembers me. Some of my fondest memories are of Mrs. Vivian Mclennan and VBS and Christmas plays. Most of the people were getting older when I was there. I wonder if Mr. Mott Gray or the Blanchards or the Mclennans the Overmans or any of the rest are still around.
Well, thanks for this time down memory lane. If you read this, please tell the people I said "Hi" at my home church.
Brother Greg,
I am still new at Clopton but some of the names i do know. Mrs. Vivian Mclennan still goes there,Mrs. Nancy Blanchard and her son go there. Mr. Blanchard passed away this year according to the All Saints Service.I do not see the Overman name on my roster and Mr.Gray has passed away too.
Did you go to school here? My business partner grew up in covington ,his name is Jonathan Murphy, we are a little bit older than you so you may not know him.
The computer makes a small world even smaller doesn't it.
Take care
David
Thank you very much David. I think I remember hearing about Mott Gray passing away now. He would pass out the bulletins every week and as kids we would all wait to see how long into the service before we would hear the snoring from the back row begin. It was funny then. Now I know he had sleeping problems that made him do that. But still it is a memory that will never fade. He was a very nice man who always treated me well.
Please Please pass this on to Mrs. Vivian. Tell her that I said hello and that I love her very much. I told her this a long time ago, but I want to share with her again that she was one of the biggest influences on my life as a child and is a big part of the reason I came to Christ and am now in the ministry. She will always be one of my most beloved saints. Please pass that on to her. Thanks. And Have a Happy and Blessed Thanksgiving.
Sorry, I got carried away and never answered your question. I went to school in Brighton until high school. They closed the old Brighton HS and made the county a two High School county. I went to Munford and graduated. I know that there are three again. I would've gone to Brighton had it been there at the time.
I don't recognize the name. Sorry.
Good for you, Greg. You were consistent (and correct, I think) in your approach to worship.
I love our assoc. pastor, but every single Sunday he has to spend a couple minutes mentioning college football and rivalries and such. I know he does it to keep things informal, but it is just so completely irrelevant.
I think it is fine to mention veterans - hey, we owe them a lot! - but it was out of line for someone to berate you over it.
Peace,
Neil
Thanks Neil
I hope everyone had a blessed Thanksgiving.
Greg,
Long time no talk! This is Feeser. I think that the reason the person was so upset was that Veteran's Day rarely falls on a Sunday. The church my wife attends (Calvary UMC in Colorado Springs)had a service centered around Veterans that was put together completely by the Worship committee.
Remember, we are a military town having the Academy, Peterson & Schriever AFBs and Fort Carson all here so our focus is a bit more on those serving.
With Veteran's day actually falling on a Sunday I see no great problem with a special service so long as it is kept in the perspective of who we are as Christians. Most years I would expect a mention during announcements, special focus during the prayer and perhaps a insert listing all veterans and those currently serving.
Just my perspective as an Active Duty AF Chaplain.
Ron
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